Done with things breaking kthx

[naomikritzer]

I think I mentioned about the dishwasher breaking, and about thinking my freezer was leaking (no more dribbling water, so hopefully that was just a random fluke). Yesterday I noticed at around 4:30 p.m. that I was feeling really chilly. I checked my thermostat and saw that while it was set at 68, the temperature was 58. I could hear the furnace humming away down in the basement but it was not blowing any actual warm air up through the vents.

It was 10 degrees outside.

We have a service plan with the gas company, so at least this was relatively straightforward. I called up, used the magic phrase "we have no heat," and they said someone would be by to fix it by midnight. Fortunately, it didn't actually take that long; the repairman arrived at 5:30. It was 55 by then. He replaced the ignitor (we seem to go through one of those every two years) and our house was warm again by bedtime.

Today, I intended to go grocery shopping in the morning. I decided to stop by a gift store about a half mile away before going for the actual groceries (Kiera's main request for Christmas was a snow globe, so I want to get her a nice one). When I came out and started the car, the car came on -- I swear to God, the engine was running, I could rev it, THE CAR WAS HONESTLY ON -- but (a) about half the warning lights were lit, including the one for the parking break, which would not shut off when I released the parking break, and (b) the car would not shift out of park. I turned it off, I turned it back on, I let it run for a while as I leafed through the manual trying to figure out what the heck these lights meant (they all meant "take car to dealership immediately"), and finally walked home and called the nearest dealership trying to find out if they were open on Saturdays, if they had service loaners, and if they were going to give me a service loaner if I turned up with my broken minivan. (FTR, this is a one-year-old vehicle with just over 10,000 miles on it, and it was made by Toyota and has a reputation for extreme reliability.)

As it turned out, I did not have to have it towed down to the dealership, as when Ed and I stopped back up there to try again, it turned on and behaved completely normally. Ed's theory, which seemed reasonable, was that the problem was with the electrical system (either that, or I'd somehow neglected to turn on the car, although he assured me that he trusted that I knew when my car was on).

I have never had a car serviced at a dealership before. I've gotten all the recommended scheduled stuff like tire rotations and oil changes, but I take it to a reliable mechanic that's closer to home, rather than driving all the way to the dealership. All the dealerships are in the suburbs and a minimum of a twenty minute drive from my house, if I hit all the lights right and there's no traffic on the highway. The mechanic I go to is five minutes away and I can walk to a nice coffee shop while they change my oil. I wanted to take it to the dealership this time because the car is under warranty, but it was a monumental pain in the butt. Starting with the phone call -- you'd think, "are you open, and can I have a service loaner?" would be fairly straightforward questions, but I got transferred repeatedly and put on hold for agonizingly long periods of time. I finally talked to a guy named Gary. When I arrived and walked into the service department, there were a whole lot of guys there, none wearing name tags, so I went to the one who looked free. This turned out to be Gary, but he didn't tell me this, even though I started out by saying that I'd talked to someone named Gary and giving him a questioning look. He did finally identify himself, but only after I'd re-explained the entire problem. Then someone disappeared with my van before I could get the carseats out, so Gary had to have them bring it back, and that took forever. I don't understand why anyone would use a dealership unless they were getting warranty work done. It was such a hassle.

They said that there was about a 50% chance they'd have time to look at the car today, and then a 50% chance they'd be able to diagnose the issue without a master mechanic, who wouldn't be in until Monday. If they DID finish with it, I'd need to get the loaner back to them by 5:45.

I took the loaner and did my grocery shopping. This grocery store has carts with locking wheels to prevent cart theft. In theory, they're supposed to lock if you take them out of the grocery store parking lot but my wheels locked while I was still in the lot. A very nice random lady offered to watch my groceries while I got my car, and then she helped me load them into it.

Ten minutes after I got home, the dealership called my cell phone (so I missed the call, because it was in my coat pocket) to say that they'd been unable to reproduce the problem and had examined the whole electrical system and found nothing wrong. They also noted that the problems I described -- lights on, car won't shift out of park -- were consistent with the car not actually being on. Which is true. BUT THE CAR WAS ON. I SWEAR TO GOD. Possibly the most frustrating thing about the entire incident is that I know it would make sense if somehow the car wasn't running, and in fact I turned it off and back on a couple of times because it was so bizarre that I didn't trust my own perceptions; I was hearing the hum and feeling the vibration of the car, but maybe, somehow, it wasn't on? because that would explain it. So I would turn it off and back on and the problem would still be there. And yet it was clear the dealership mechanic thought it was operator error.

We had dinner with my parents tonight and Ed said they'd figured out the problem while I was returning the service loaner -- the problem was that I drove the car for less than a mile on an extremely cold day, and that can cause cars to do strange things. So hopefully it was just some weird fluke and will never come up again, and if it does, I guess I will let it sit for another half hour and then try to turn it on again and see if the problem has magically fixed itself.

Can I be done with things breaking now? Please?

Comments

[jiawen]

I seem to be having one of those weeks, too.

Could it have to do with cold temperatures? Maybe leave it out for the night and try it again in the morning, once everything has had time to freeze?

Let me know if you want a recommendation for a garage.

[naomikritzer]

Well, it's working fine now, so who knows? I think it probably did have something to do with the cold weather.

[gelsey.livejournal.com]

My sympathies. I just got my car back from the shop--brakes + issues.

I did have the car-seeming-on-but-not-really-on thing happen once. I nearly rolled into some trees when I shifted out of park.

[naomikritzer]

It was on. I could rev the engine. I think the car was on but the computer thought it was off, hence the lights, the inability to shift out of park, etc.

[swords-and-pens.livejournal.com]

The entire male side of my immediate family has worked in the auto industry at one point or another. My dad worked for GM for 41 years. One of my brothers once owned a Chevy dealership, my two other brothers either worked in or ran service departments in dealerships, and one of them is now a sales manager at a dealership. I have even worked in a couple of dealerships here and there. And I STILL only go to a dealership for mechanical service while my vehicles are under warranty. The minute the warranty is up, I take it to an independent mechanic.

That said, some service techs and service managers are better than others. Just like with any mechanic out there. Most dealerships want to provide good service, since that is actually where a lot of their money is made. So, if you get lousy service, let them know. They *want* you to come back, which means they want to fix bad service. And if the warranty covers it, you should go back. Our old lemon van was in constantly, and we never paid a dime. I fully believe in going in for every little rattle and click as long as it is covered. Get your money's worth on the warranty - it was factored into the price of the car, after all.

But yeah, it can be a pain.

Good luck with nothing breaking for a while. The new year is around the corner!

[naomikritzer]

You know, I found myself analyzing what was going on at that service department -- the getting passed around, the people not wanting to give me a straight answer, etc. -- and my strong suspicion is that management there has used all the wrong tactics to make people provide good customer service. The distinct vibe I got was that everyone I talked to was worried about getting into trouble. They were practicing the mechanic's version of defensive medicine, if that makes sense. Either they were afraid of getting in trouble with their boss, or they were afraid that if the customer became psychotic and abusive, they would have no backup from their boss.

My friend with an MBA likes the phrase, "Be careful of what you incent, because that's what you'll get." I think this dealership has given people incentives to cover their ass and avoid blame, rather than giving incentives to provide customers with a good experience.

[von-krag.livejournal.com]

If it's a Rudy Luther shop I wouldn't be surprised. I had a 25% off any service coupon that their estaminet priced at 500$. That's 400 more than my shop did it for. Bah!

[naomikritzer]

Not Luther. This was the one that claims to be in Bloomington but is actually in Edina. I'm currently blanking on the name. Walser, maybe?

I'll probably try a different dealership the next time I need one -- I bought it from Denny Hecker, which isn't a whole lot further from me than Walser, but they were closed on Saturday.

[naomikritzer]

ROFL

I wrote a short story once about a woman who could faith-heal computer equipment. I'd link you, but that page currently appears to be unavailable. I'm going to have to let the guy who maintains my website know about that once he gets back from taking the kids down to the corner store.

[sylvia-rachel.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about that story while reading your post. I love that story :)

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

Ouch. I'm sorry to hear it. The past couple winters I had the furnace stop producing heat for one reason or 'nother. No fun. So far, so good this year.

[naomikritzer]

I swear our furnace breaks down at some point every year. I wonder sometimes if other people have this much trouble, or if it's because ours is old. (Our is old, but it's not antiquated or anything. It's an Amana that was probably installed in the late 1980s or early 1990s, and it's well-rated for efficiency despite its age.)

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

It might be worth while to get an expert opinion on whether it's so old that it might be cheaper to replace than to repair every year. Although, given what furnaces cost to replace it might be cheaper to repair every year.

[naomikritzer]

Welllllllll, that's part of why we have that repair plan. It's $15/month. So, $180/year for all parts and labor for as long as the furnace is repairable. If we got a new furnace we could ditch that repair plan at least for the length of the warranty, but once that ran out, we'd be gambling that the new furnace would continue to be reliable.

If we'd paid for the repair on Friday, it would've been $140 for the part and labor. You can do a heck of a lot of $140 repairs before you hit the point where it's cheaper to get a new furnace.

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

Yeah; those repair plans make all the difference. More hassle than a new furnace, but lots less expense.

[yankee-in-texas.livejournal.com]

Sorry your dealer sucks. It is good to have a good mechanic. I'm a total ignoramus about cars so I have to trust. I've had good luck with dealerships, though.

I live very near a Toyota dealership, so I go there for routine maintenance. Their waiting room isn't big or posh (although it has free wireless internet, which I never use because I am always with children [which is different from being with child]) but they are quick and friendly, and the one time when they found some belts they wanted to change and an oil leak somewhere, they immediately signed me up for a free loner car, and watched the kids while they took me out to the car to "see the oil drip" and get the car seats...

The Toyota dealer in Rochester was good too. They had a better lounge, but their free loaner car was actually a rental car from a place down the road and I had to take a shuttle, fill out papers, etc. It was easy but time-consuming.

Now it sounds like I'm an insane driver. No no. The first loaner car was when I had to get a side door replaced due to an idiot in Maryland who tried to make a left turn from the right lane (and I wasn't driving) and the second time was the belt replacement and whatnot on my 9-yr-old minivan which had never had that kind of treatment before and which had just driven from NY to TX.

[naomikritzer]

See, that common-sense approach to logistics was totally missing at this dealership. Sigh.

[yankee-in-texas.livejournal.com]

I like the idea of a free loner car. I think it would be... Something uncomfortable for all passengers... starts with a Y... what was it? 4 letters? Yoni? No, that can't be it.

[sylvia-rachel.livejournal.com]

Yugo?

[sylvia-rachel.livejournal.com]

My mom takes her 1987 Tercel wagon to the dealership for servicing and when it breaks, and they are extremely nice and helpful there. (Once someone even helped us put DD's carseat into the car, even though strictly speaking she wasn't supposed to, for liability reasons or something.) I suspect you're right about management and incentives at the one you went to. Your experience sounds a great deal like DH's and my recent experience with our ex-ISP, and our diagnosis there was the same: instead of giving their phone reps either the knowledge or the authority to actually fix anything, they "empower" them to say whatever it takes to get the customer off the phone, whether or not it's true :^P

Had you forgotten to plug the car in the previous night? Because that could cause those problems, maybe...

[naomikritzer]

Plug the car in? We don't have that option. Also, I park it on the street, so the extension cord logistics would be complicated.

[sylvia-rachel.livejournal.com]

Oh, so no block heater? See, I keep thinking Minnesota is just like Alberta and/or Saskatchewan, but here's obviously another way in which it's not.

[naomikritzer]

There are plenty of people here who have block heaters, but most don't.

[sylvia-rachel.livejournal.com]

Nobody has them in Toronto at all. But in Calgary, where I grew up, it's practically mandatory -- there are even parkades and parking lots that have outlets for plugging in block heaters (park & ride lots at LRT stations, for instance, and the university parkade where my mom parks to teach her evening classes). Friends who grew up in places like Saskatoon report the same phenomenon, and block heaters are de rigueur in northern Ontario as well.

My high school had a very small parking lot, outdoors, with no outlets; on cold days, people who had driven to school would rush out as soon as the lunch bell rang to take their cars around the block a few times, because otherwise there was no way said cars would start at the end of the day. The -30C temps don't usually last more than a couple of weeks at a stretch, but during those episodes you really don't want your car to not start...

[naomikritzer]

It gets cold here, but not as cold as Saskatoon. I remember one particular cold snap where AAA was triaging jump-starts by saying that they would only come jump-start you if you were stuck somewhere dangerous, or else had somewhere a bit warmer to move your car to, because otherwise, there wasn't much point, as in another few hours you'd just need another jump-start.