The Suzuki Experience

[naomikritzer]

I suppose I should start by explaining that Suzuki in this case is not a motorcycle, but a method of music instruction. When I was five years old and desperately wanted piano lessons, my mother couldn't find any non-Suzuki teachers willing to teach a five-year-old, so I spent several years as a Suzuki piano student. I can remember my mother's immense relief when I switched over to lessons with a non-Suzuki teacher and she no longer had to sit next to me and personally supervise every minute of every practice session.

Anyway, a month or so back, Kiera started talking about wanting violin lessons. Also ukulele lessons, but mostly violin lessons. As she is currently signed up for a once-a-week music class with my mother, I told her she would have to wait, probably until fall but at the very least until summer. She seemed reconciled to that.

I took her to music class this week, because my mother was sick. At the end of the class, the teacher reminded everyone that there's just one more session before spring break, and then she'll see everyone again after their vacation.

"Except me," Kiera said brightly, "because I'm going to take violin lessons instead." I reminded her again that she was signed up for this class until June, and couldn't take violin lessons until fall, or summer at the very earliest. The teacher, though, jumped in to tell me that I should call MacPhail RIGHT AWAY to get on the waiting list for their Suzuki program. (This music class is also offered through MacPhail.)

So tonight I visited their website and checked out their Suzuki program. And oh. Oh dear.

They have you start out by sending away for a packet, filling out the application, and applying. Once you've done that, you go on the waiting list, and when a space opens up, they let you know. They also say

Once a family has been accepted into one of our teachers’ studios, the Suzuki teaching parent will take the initial private lessons on the instrument without the child present. The teaching parent will also be enrolled in a weekly new parent education class on Saturday mornings. This enables the parent to understand the basics of performing on the instrument and teaching their child at home.

Mornings. Plural. Nowhere do they tell you how MANY mornings; apparently this is an ongoing, indefinite commitment on the part of (I'd bet money this is true for 99.9% of the families involved) the mother.

In ADDITION, there's the pre-Suzuki class:

Suzuki Talent Education Parent Workshop: After a family has been accepted into the program, and before your child begins lessons, parents are required to take this introductory program. Parents will meet faculty, hear lectures, participate in group discussions, observe lessons and view videotapes to help prepare for the best Suzuki experience.

And then they get to the cost, which is markedly more than your garden-variety music lessons. And then, the icing on the cupcake:

The MacPhail Suzuki Association (MSA) was organized in 1974 by parents of students in the Suzuki Talent Education program at MacPhail. Its purpose is to aid in the development of the MacPhail Suzuki program, serve as a forum for parental input and assistance, and stimulate parental involvement in Suzuki-related activities. Parents work closely with MacPhail staff to strengthen and secure community support for the program. All Suzuki parents are members and are invited and encouraged to participate in MSA volunteer activities.

Because GOD KNOWS that in between shuttling your child to lessons, going to your own lessons, and viewing videotapes, what you REALLY want to be do with your remaining free time is to participate in MSA volunteer activities.

Am I just a bad parent, that I read something like this and think, "Are you people COMPLETELY F*CKING INSANE?" instead of "oooh, I'd better call tomorrow so I can get that packet in!"

Fortunately, Kiera told me today that she'd changed her mind about violin and ukulele (she wanted to learn violin, and then, once she was done learning violin, she wanted to learn ukulele) and would hold off on lessons for a while. Thank GOD. Because in another year or two I expect finding a regular old violin (or ukulele) teacher won't be a problem. A teacher who is OK with the parents of her students having a life. The kind of life that doesn't revolve around the four-year-old's violin lessons.

Comments

[gelsey.livejournal.com]

Let me say, I am all for music in a child's life. I didn't have it, not nearly enough, and I wish I did. I was a music major for 2.5 years and have my minor in music education.

But dude. THAT IS INSANE. No freaking way. I was never fond of the Suzuki method when we were studying it, and now I'm even less fond of it, looking at all that. You deserve a life. And there are plenty of teachers that don't do that.

If you live anywhere near a university, I'd inquire with the violin studio teacher (if there is one) if he/she has any students they would recommend to teach private lessons. My music department routinely has the talented students teaching the local children. It's often cheaper, but still very good talent.

If not a uni, sometimes other music teachers in the area have non-Suzuki method teachers ...

Good luck.

[naomikritzer]

Yeah, we have a major university pretty close by, and that's a good thought; the next time she starts talking about violin or ukulele lessons, I will call them.

[joxn.livejournal.com]

Thank god Kiera's fickle and Molly's old enough to have real lessons.

[swords-and-pens.livejournal.com]

Oh good Lord. Talk about trying to rope you in forever and a day.

I've heard a mixed bag about the Suzuki method at best. People seem to think it is either the best thing ever, or marginally useful at best (and sometime less so). In any case, I think the expectations are a bit...much.

[ciaweth.livejournal.com]

Ugh. I remember my mother refusing to let me anywhere near anything Suzuki method-ish because they didn't teach you to read music at first, and she thought that was a grave (and stupid) sin. But also there was the intensity of it all. And the expense.

[naomikritzer]

The not-reading-music-right-away thing worked fine for me when I was five and playing the Twinkle variations and "Lightly Row" by ear. When I got to be eight and was trying to play Bach Minuets, it became a completely dysfunctional approach -- if I stumbled, even slightly, I lost the thread of what I was doing and had to start over at the beginning.

It was horribly frustrating.

[chrysoula.livejournal.com]

I'd do it, if my kid was interested in the violin and I could afford it. But I've taken a semester of violin myself, and would love to learn more and have an excuse to practice. I imagine the folks who go on the waiting list are either like me (with their own interest in the instrument), or hoping to produce a prodigy/professional, since the Suzuki method is associated with that.

[naomikritzer]

I took violin for a year in college and also have an interest in the instrument....but I also have another child, a book I should be working on, and various other obligations.

[winterswitchery.livejournal.com]

What the heck is the Suzuki method? I spent a long time in music and have never heard of it.

[naomikritzer]

Music lessons (I know they do violin, cello, piano, and flute, among other instruments) that focus on ear training. The kids listen over and over to a recording of the songs they are supposed to play.

[naomikritzer]

I was always shocked, as a kid, when I ran into other piano students who couldn't pick out simple tunes. I still find this weird, actually.

[alirose.livejournal.com]

That is totally nuts! I did Suzuki as a kid (for cello) and it was never that intense. I also did a music camp at McPhail, but it wasn't Suzuki and I was in high school, so all my parents had to do was drive me. So I ws kind of thinking Kaylee might take her first real music lessons at McPhail. (Kaylee has music class at McPhail right now too, btw) But I'm not super fond of Suzuki and there's no way we'd do THAT program! Holy cow.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

Yikes. Well, that's totally worth remembering if V ends up interested in any instruments. Luckily there are a ton of options around here for lessons. (Anyway, the way she's acting now, she'll want to play drums. You think they do Suzuki for drums? Yeah, neither did I.)

[lilisonna.livejournal.com]

Wow. That's utterly insane.

I can't imagine that K would actually enjoy the lessons in that sort of situation because you'd be so time-crunched that it would bleed over. Just say no to high pressure children's lessons.

[magentamn.livejournal.com]

The "listen and learn" method is why I flunked French. I guess some people can learn that why, but I couldn't. It would have driven me insane for piano. Fortunately, I had a regular teacher who taught me to read music, and learned music theory when I was about 8 or 9.

I wonder if community education has music lesson for kids? I know they have them for adults.

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

I don't blame you for being daunted by the commitment of being a suzuki parent. (And it is almost always the mother, but it's not like this is something imposed on you by the studio or the teacher. Dads are free to get involved if they want.) I was a little put off by the description of the parent classes as well as the extended period that beginners use boxes. It seemed excessive. However, we found a fabulous teacher, and she has really become a dear friend, too, and suzuki has been a terrific experience.

First, the parent education. I think if you're interested you should call to clarify what the commitment is exactly. I think it may sound like more than it is. Every studio is different, but what we do in ours is six weeks of classes on a Tuesday evening. Part of the classes are violin lessons. Everybody rents a full-size violin, and it's really a lot of fun. I think this is so helpful, because a lot of Moms otherwise have unreasonable expectations of their kiddo, and it really helps to have that humbling memory of how very hard it is to "snap" your third finger over to the A-string, or to hold your hand in the correct position or whatever. Also in the evening classes we talked about the pedagogy, the parental role, and practiced. There were also some videos to watch. All in all, it was 1.5 hours per week, for about six weeks for the parent education part, and it was all very enjoyable. It sounds like McPhail divides the parent lessons and the parent education classes, but I'll bet it is still about 1.5 hours per week for six weeks.

I see so many misconceptions about suzuki method in this comment thread. I'm going to try to answer some of them:

"Thank god Kiera's fickle and Molly's old enough to have real lessons."

Suzuki violin lessons ARE real lessons.

"I've heard a mixed bag about the Suzuki method at best. People seem to think it is either the best thing ever, or marginally useful at best (and sometime less so). In any case, I think the expectations are a bit...much."

A lot of people have prejudices against the suzuki method going back fifty years or more. However, you'll find that those who speak poorly of it rarely have much experience with the method. The prejudice is very similar to the tension between "literary" fiction writers and genre writers, with the traditionalists being the "litearary" camp and the suzuki folks in the genre "ghetto."

"Ugh. I remember my mother refusing to let me anywhere near anything Suzuki method-ish because they didn't teach you to read music at first, and she thought that was a grave (and stupid) sin. But also there was the intensity of it all. And the expense."

Our teacher helped to start one of the first suzuki studios in the U.S. back in the 70's. At first, they were not teaching music reading, and it caused problems when the kids began to join orchestras, etc. So they incorporated music reading into the program. Nowadays, by the age of 8 or 9, all of the kids have a good foundation in music reading. This is a good question to ask in any suzuki program. I doubt there are any teachers left who aren't teaching music reading. The thing to understand is that reading readiness is age-dependent. The youngest beginners, ages 3-5, are not ready to read music. This is exactly the reason that traditional music lessons begin at an older age. However, the early ear training is excellent, and cannot be replaced by students starting later.

"I imagine the folks who go on the waiting list are either like me (with their own interest in the instrument), or hoping to produce a prodigy/professional, since the Suzuki method is associated with that."

No, not at all. Producing a prodigy is not a goal of suzuki. This is expressly contradicted in all of the "official" suzuki materials. The goal is to raise "wonderful human beings" through the love of music. Parents are regular people who feel that music is an important part of a child's education.

[chrysoula.livejournal.com]

I know it's not the goal of Suzuki, but it is the goal of some parents who go on a waiting list. I've read enough rants from Suzuki instructors about certain kinds of parents to pick up on that. I'm sure those parents show up in other methods as well. One of the other things I've heard about Suzuki is that almost all well-known young performers started out Suzuki. Is that also a misconception?

[alirose.livejournal.com]

"Nowadays, by the age of 8 or 9, all of the kids have a good foundation in music reading. This is a good question to ask in any suzuki program. I doubt there are any teachers left who aren't teaching music reading. The thing to understand is that reading readiness is age-dependent. The youngest beginners, ages 3-5, are not ready to read music. This is exactly the reason that traditional music lessons begin at an older age. However, the early ear training is excellent, and cannot be replaced by students starting later."

That is an excellent point that I had not thought of. Thank you for writing all of this.

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

(continued)

"Huh. That sounds about as useful as the method in 'The Music Man' (if you can sing it, you can play it!)."

Don't knock it till you try it! The listening effect is downright spooky. It's amazing watching kids who have been listening to the repertoire for a couple of years playing their new piece for the first time. My biggest problem with teaching my son a new song, after 3.5 years of suzuki, is in slowing him down enough to teach him the correct bowings and fingerings, because he will barge through it any old way. After all of that ear training, he can play almost any simple tune by ear. Given any group of suzuki trained child violinists, you can play a simple song to them that none of them have ever heard, and have them play it right back at you. Frere jacques is a great one for that trick.


"I should say that all the folks I knew at Eastman claimed that Suzuki method AT BEST put you a couple years behind your musical peers. I know exactly zero pro-level musicians (including a dear friend of mine who is certified to teach Suzuki on the cello) who recommend it as a method for kids who want to go on in music."

Suzuki-trained musicians now dominate orchestras around the world. However, a lot of them are "in the closet" about it, and will not admit it to their peers. This is because of the tension I mentioned above between suzuki and the academic music establishment. The problem is that Suzuki *works*. I was recently chatting with a violin shop employee who is a music student. He was trained through traditional violin lessons, and expressed a wish that he had started in Suzuki when he was five. When I asked him why, he said it was because of the sheer perfection of the technique of the suzuki violinists. When students start at a young age, they are not in a hurry to master repertoire, and there is a lot of time spent teaching proper hand position, feet position, fingers, bow hands (oh, the time we spent on bow hands!). Also, at every stage of the process, attention is lavished on "problem spots" so that the student can really master difficult skills instead of "kind of getting it" and then moving on to a new piece.



"I can't imagine that K would actually enjoy the lessons in that sort of situation because you'd be so time-crunched that it would bleed over. Just say no to high pressure children's lessons."

That's a family decision. The commitment for us is one private lesson per week, one group lesson per week, and one practice session per day. Practice takes 15-30 minutes, and it's supposed to be fun and positive. It certainly is possible to overschedule a child, but I am finding the backlash a bit tiresome. Most kids can handle the commitment of suzuki lessons. The real question is whether their parents can.

[lilisonna.livejournal.com]

Like all things, I suspect that suzuki lessons vary wildly from place to place. We've looked into it for our child, and may eventually put her in one. However, the general feel from what was posted here was a high-pressure pure-performance type of institution. It could just be poorly worded or it could be a warning flag that this is not the place to go.

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

Okay, after all of that, I want to add that Suzuki will not be right for everyone. All children are fickle, and they all want to give up when the going gets tough, especially the wee ones. The parent has to provide tons of positive motivation, so this is definitely a commitment a parent makes for a child. If you want casual lessons, something for the child to explore whether they are interested, or to pursue on their own initiative, then suzuki doesn't work as well.

Some people feel that it's cruel to force music lessons on a child, but we all "force" reading, writing, arithmetic, penmanship, etc. on them. If a parent feels that music education is important in producing a well-rounded, educated adult, and are interested in taking an active role in that education, then Suzuki is a good choice. And after all, it is only half an hour a day. If someone is too busy to spend that much time with their child, I hope they are at least finding some other activities that they can do together.

[naomikritzer]

All children are fickle, and they all want to give up when the going gets tough, especially the wee ones.

Now that is an entertaining generalization.

My parents never forced music lessons on any of us -- not me, not my sister, and not my brother. It was a privilege, and when we dragged our feet with practicing, they told us that if we weren't willing to do the work, we could quit lessons. I took piano lessons from age 5 to age 17, and then quit because I had hit the point where in order to make forward progress I would have to commit to a minimum of an hour of practice every day, and I just didn't love it that much to do that. My sister studied piano from six until high school-ish, oboe for three years in middle school, and voice in high school. My brother started trumpet at the age of seven, started getting up an hour early to get in an extra practice session before school when he was 12 or 13, and picked up piano when he was 14, not because of any real interest in piano but because he was thinking ahead and knew that piano was required by most music programs. He graduated with a BA in trumpet from CCM and supported himself as a musician for several years. (And then burned out and is now attending law school.)

I guess it comes down to what the parent's goals are regarding music, for the child. My goal is for my children to discover things that they are passionate about, and to give them the opportunity to develop the internal tools (self-discipline, persistence, a work ethic, etc.) they need to succeed with their chosen interests. I believe that the best way to do this is to encourage and support a child as they pursue some difficult but attainable goal that they chose for themselves -- whether it's music, gymnastics, art, chess, skateboarding.... If Kiera wants to do this with music, I consider it part of my job to support and encourage while also standing back a little bit, because it should be her accomplishment and not mine.

Of course there are things I require them to learn (or would require, if they started to fall behind out of disinterest), but music isn't one.

[sylvia-rachel.livejournal.com]

IMO, they are completely f*cking insane. Most Suzuki-related people I have encountered are deeply weird.

I took Suzuki violin for a few months when I was three, or maybe four. The experience came very close to putting me off music lessons for the rest of my life. Other kids have different experiences with Suzuki lessons, presumably, because the program is insanely popular, but I went in a few short months from loving my little violin and being excited and enthusiastic about learning to play it to refusing to even be in the same room with it (or my teacher).

Believe it or not, though, I didn't quit: I got kicked out of the program, because my dad taught me to play "Twinkle, Twinkle" ahead of schedule. Seriously.

The other thing that bugs me about Suzuki is that they teach you to play an instrument without, as far as I can determine, teaching any musicianship. DD used to take a kids' music class at the Conservatory here (this year she decided to take a dance class instead), and every few months there would be a Suzuki workshop or a Suzuki recital in a nearby studio that I would end up listening to part of from out in the hall. Some of the (presumably older) kids played some pretty flashy stuff, and they got all the notes and everything, but almost all of them played more or less horribly out of tune. Playing in tune on a stringed instrument is hard, I realize that -- but by the time you're playing a piece that has sixteenth-note runs in it, should you not begin to have some inkling of the difference between playing in tune and playing sharp or flat?

[ellameena.livejournal.com]

"Playing in tune on a stringed instrument is hard, I realize that -- but by the time you're playing a piece that has sixteenth-note runs in it, should you not begin to have some inkling of the difference between playing in tune and playing sharp or flat?"

I've never heard suzuki groups playing substantially out of tune, unless they are in the very early stages of learning a new piece. Playing in tune is a skill you work on perpetually. Even a professional violinist will have lots of minor booboos, most of which are imperceptible to the audience, but maddening to the musician.

Nonetheless, if you, as a non-musician, were hearing music being played out of tune from a group of suzuki students, I have no idea why that would happen.

I'm sorry to hear that you feel people involved in suzuki are deeply weird. I'm not sure how to take that. I have a feeling you wouldn't like it very much for me to say the same thing of one of your hobbies or interests.

[trinitysite.livejournal.com]

I did suzuki flute starting in second grade, and it was nothing like that. Same start, though: I declared that I wanted to play the flute, and the suzuki teacher was the only one my mother found who would teach someone that young.

However, I don't remember crazy parental involvement at all. What I do remember was the emphasis on learning by ear (which would have been upsetting had I not already known how to read music) and the group lessons on every other Saturday, which were probably good training for ensemble work.

Perhaps the fact that it was flute (less common) made it more innocuous than the violin version? Anyway, my suzuki teacher moved away when I was in fifth grade, and I moved on to someone else.

[yankee-in-texas.livejournal.com]

The parental workload there sure sounds insane to me. I can see how it might appeal, if one's goial were to have one's child get the most out of Suzuki lessons, but if the goal is for one's child to have fun learning an instrument (and not with any desire to maximize performance or whatnot) then yeah, there have to be better options.

Okay, now here's my "Crazy Unschooler" perspective.

I'm still thinking about how to do music "lessons" with my kids. We have a harmonica, a recorder, and and a piano; and books about how to play each (with reading music included). So far the kids are sometimes getting out their beginner piano books and reading and playing the piano sometimes, but they don't make a lot of progress... but they love it and they are still really enjoying music, which to me is what's important, at least for now.

Personally, I am enjoying the harmonica and its lesson book. Don't tell my kids, but I got them the harmonica because I have always wanted to learn to play.